Needing some help!
. I watch all the differnts cake shows, some say roll fondant to cover cakes, thin, others say thick. Which one?
. When applying the crumb coat, thick or thin? Chill before applying fondant?
. Can't seem to get the shine from the luster and pearl dust that I see on tv. Apply as a powder or add liquid? To a dry fondant or when it is refrigerated and becomes a little wet?
Appreciate all feedback. This cake stuff is a whole lot harder than it looks on tv!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eileen S on
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Trish - ah, cake shows. They fool everyone into thinking we can whip up enormous, complicated cakes in an hour! Don't get me wrong, I love them! But they do tend to oversimplify. :)
The short answer is, it depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you roll the fondant too thin, it will tear and every flaw in your icing underneath with show through. If you roll it too thick, the weight will cause it to tear and crack. It really takes practice to find which thickness works best for you. My first few fondanted cakes had fondant that was much too thick.
Crumb coat - again it depends on what you're trying to achieve. If I'm putting white fondant over a dark cake, I will make the crumb coat thicker to mask the color underneath, but generally you just need enough frosting to seal in the crumbs.
I'm no expert with the luster dust, so I'll let someone else take that one.
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Permalink Reply by Teneisha Williams on
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when i started doing cakes everything told me to roll the fondant 1/4" thick (I live in Jamaica and the cost of fondant is 3-4 times higher than in the US). So my cakes were covered in lots of money!!!.
Did some training in CA and my instructor advised that due to fondant cost i should try 1/8 of an inch...It works...I now use less fondant and my cakes are looking better nowadays.
My crumb coat is not too thick...but thick enough to fill dents etc. As long as I can see cake through the coating I'm good.
I don't refrigerate my cake after coating. I just let it sit out for an hour or so then apply fondant.
Luster dust...I used it on my all ivory cake in my album and the cake looked shiny...Oh how shiny everything in my apt. was!...just be careful how u apply. Use a loose brush and apply in small amounts to avoid concentration of the dust. The 1st time I tried it sections of my cake was an ugly gold....horrible stuff...
Apply luster dust in it's dry form. I wouldn't suggest applying the dust to a wet cake...I think that would not be a good looking cake...unless u are going for a particular look...:)
Do test runs to determine what works best for you.
btw...I'm no expert here...just someone learning as I go along and sharing my experience...:)
Teneisha
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Permalink Reply by suziq auzzi on
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Roll fondant to cover cakes, thin, others say thick. Which one?
1. rolled fondant was originally the covering for fruit cake. It was applied 1-2cm thick.
2. rolled fondant is now applied to any type of cake capable of supporting it's weight. Then, taking the density of the cake in question, you roll it as thick/thin as you can handle it. 3mm, 6mm, 8mm - find the one that you are confortable with ..
4. The thinner the sugar paste covering, the more obvious the imperfections show from underneath.When applying the crumb coat, thick or thin?
1. The crumb-coat does not perform the function that it would on a buttercream cake: it is not there to bind the surface, stopping the crumbs from mixing with the icing.
2. Rolled fondant shows up every imperfection in the cake underneath. The undercoat is applied to to fill in the craters etc for a smmoth surface.Chill before applying fondant?
1. why?
2. the crumbcoat is either "sticky" so the rolled fondant can stick to the cake
3. if the crumbcoat is dry, then another method of "sticking" the rolled fondant will have to be employed.Can't seem to get the shine from the luster and pearl dust that I see on tv.
Super shiny on TV usually is seen by the audience immediately after the cake/item has been steamed. The look rarely lasts - the steam dries, and the surface returns to original abet slightly melted.
Dusts, sparkles etc are all to do with what they are made of, and how big the granules are .. There are confectionary glazes [shellac], alcohol paints: it depends what you actually want ..
This cake stuff is a whole lot harder than it looks on tv!
Yes, yes, yes....
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Permalink Reply by Lynne Salmon on
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I agree w/most of what has already been said. One statement by suziq I disagree w is about the function of b'cream under fondant not being a crumb coat. In a way it is there to seal crumbs but it also is there to become something for the fondant to stick to. That's why the fondant should be applied to the cake ASAP after being iced in b'cream. Don't let it sit/dry! Don't put in frig. Crumb coating shoud never be put into frig to 'dry'. I don't know where that misinformation came from :(
Re using dusts: it's best applied w/a soft brush in it's dry powder form. Since I stopped actually decorating about 5 yrs ago there have been new products come on the market and one I understand is 'dusts' made to be used in an airbrush. Then, of course, it would not be used dry. Super pearl will give a nice sheen but I don't think any of them (except maybe disco dusts which I have never used) give a really super bright shine. When disco dusts 1st came out there were stories that it was finely curshed plastic and not edible so I never used it.
Don't know if that has changed or not.
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Permalink Reply by Dawn Becker on
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I put BC under my fondant because people like to eat BC and not many people like fondant. End of story. The more BC under the fondant - the better it tastes. I put a full thickness that I would on a non-fondant cake. Fondant is for cosmetics only. Very few people look forward to eating the stuff - homemade (tastes better than store bought - but still not great), store bought, name brand, doesn't matter. It's way too sweet! I have one friend who loves the stuff. But she's a little insane anyway.
Thickness depends on you. What works for you is exactly how thick it should be.
Now - fondant likes to slide around when there is too much BC - right? I freeze my cakes solid after icing so the fondant stays put. When I pull it from the freezer I barley mist it with a spray bottle and lay my fondant over it. And because the icing is frozen solid, I can even reposition the fondant if I need to.
Before anyone goes insane - YES IT WORKS!!!! No - condensation has never ever ruined the cake. N0 - The cake does not bulge as it thaws and settles. No - the cake is not dried out at all like it gets in the fridge. It works for me. All my cakes you see that are so nice and straight - all of them were frozen within 30 -60 minutes after coming out of the oven. They stayed frozen while I iced them, they go back in and the icing is given a chance to freeze solid - and then the fondant layer. Then it sits on my counter until delivery, usually the next day. I rarely have issues since I've started doing this. I didn't freeze that building cake I just did and it was a pain in the rear end!!!!
I'm always complimented on how moist my cakes are.
Dusts:
Petal dusts (matte finish) go on dry.
Luster or Disco dusts do better when you use alcohol with them.
This is my world and how it spins.... (wink)
Stay away from those stupid stupid shows. They are absolutely ridiculous. I give seminars at bridal shows. The first thing I tell them "if you want a realistic wedding on a realistic budget - stop watching those shows!!"
As a decorator speaking to a decorator, I will tell "if you want to keep your sanity and do realistic cakes and see what they look like the next day and not 10 minutes after being completed, stop watching those shows!!! Come to forums like this for inspiration and realistic how-to's. Surf the net for pic and ideas. Then come here and ask how it's done or check out YouTube (great resource). Stay away from Fantasy Land AKA television.
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Dawn Becker said:I put BC under my fondant because people like to eat BC and not many people like fondant. End of story. The more BC under the fondant - the better it tastes. I put a full thickness that I would on a non-fondant cake. Fondant is for cosmetics only. Very few people look forward to eating the stuff - homemade (tastes better than store bought - but still not great), store bought, name brand, doesn't matter. It's way too sweet! I have one friend who loves the stuff. But she's a little insane anyway.
Thickness depends on you. What works for you is exactly how thick it should be.
Now - fondant likes to slide around when there is too much BC - right? I freeze my cakes solid after icing so the fondant stays put. When I pull it from the freezer I barley mist it with a spray bottle and lay my fondant over it. And because the icing is frozen solid, I can even reposition the fondant if I need to.
Before anyone goes insane - YES IT WORKS!!!! No - condensation has never ever ruined the cake. N0 - The cake does not bulge as it thaws and settles. No - the cake is not dried out at all like it gets in the fridge. It works for me. All my cakes you see that are so nice and straight - all of them were frozen within 30 -60 minutes after coming out of the oven. They stayed frozen while I iced them, they go back in and the icing is given a chance to freeze solid - and then the fondant layer. Then it sits on my counter until delivery, usually the next day. I rarely have issues since I've started doing this. I didn't freeze that building cake I just did and it was a pain in the rear end!!!!
I'm always complimented on how moist my cakes are.
Dusts:
Petal dusts (matte finish) go on dry.
Luster or Disco dusts do better when you use alcohol with them.
This is my world and how it spins.... (wink)
Stay away from those stupid stupid shows. They are absolutely ridiculous. I give seminars at bridal shows. The first thing I tell them "if you want a realistic wedding on a realistic budget - stop watching those shows!!"
As a decorator speaking to a decorator, I will tell "if you want to keep your sanity and do realistic cakes and see what they look like the next day and not 10 minutes after being completed, stop watching those shows!!! Come to forums like this for inspiration and realistic how-to's. Surf the net for pic and ideas. Then come here and ask how it's done or check out YouTube (great resource). Stay away from Fantasy Land AKA television.
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I thank all of you for sharing your knowledge with me. I'll take it all in and use your ideas! The first cake I made was a few months ago, a four layer grooms cake. It was easy for me, no problems at all , wven deliver an hour and half away. I got the big head and said I can do this-It's getting harder each time, even with smaller cakes! Southeast Texas heat is a real killer! I attempted two 3 feet cakes, bride and grooms, in the middle of July, 110 degrees, outside. Disaster! The sugar paste flowers, first time attempted, turned out great, but the fresh strawberries and bavarian cream was oozing down the sides under the fondant. Glad it was freebies for a friend. Even though I was disappointed, the couple was happy, I literally had to hold them up to take photos. But the flowers were pretty! Anyways, I'm glad to know the tv doesn't tell the whole story, and I'm definitely learning from each cake I make.
So, I have another question for you gratious ladies. I have people wanting to buy my cakes now, but I don't have a clue how to charge. Any suggestions?
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.......have people wanting to buy my cakes now, but I don't have a clue how to charge. Any suggestions?.........
Pricing depends *a lot!* on location. So you will get lots of different answers.
A very good starting point for fondant covered cakes is about $3-4 per slice & some even go as high as $10. Use the Wilton 'wedding serving' chart for ALL cakes - no matter WHAT occasion it is being made for! It is an industry standard that most decorators use. As long as the cake is 3 or 4" tall it is considered 'wedding' when it comes to servings.
Yes, there are a couple of other charts but in the long run you loose money using them - they usually consider a serving larger than 1x2x4". This 1x2x4 is the *same amount* of cake as a 2x2x2 cube for a sheet cake serving. That is plenty of cake in most situations. If people want to serve larger pieces, let them buy a bigger cake:) Go to Cake Central and check out the pricing people are using - especially in your area. Don't play into the thought of 'I'm just a beginner" so my pricing should be low. If you are doing moist, tasty, well decorated cakes they ought to be worth the price. You *hurt other decorators* and yourself when you go w/low-ball pricing :(
I suggest you get a piece of wood or styro in the 2 sizes mentioned to show customers so they know what the size is that your pricing is based on. This will help them decide if they need to purchase a bigger cake:) HTH
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Permalink Reply by Karen Underdahl on
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I think that a lot of this personal preference and a lot of trial and error. You need to try different techniques and see what works for you.
What works for me may not for someone else, but I always crumb coat in ganache and put all my cakes in the fridge. I roll my fondant to somewhere between 1/8 and 3/8 of an inch thick, depending on the design of my cake. I will usually steam all my cakes and it gives them a nice shine that will stay shiny. If I want it really glossy, I use equal parts of vodka and corn syrup or vodka and glucose.
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