No Charge
So.. I'm not allowed to commercially sell cake because I don't have a separate/commercial kitchen. What if I give my cakes away for free but charge a delivery fee worth my time and effort?
Anybody know the legalities or pitfalls as to how this can be a good business model?
(I'm in Arizona)
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gigi on
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I too would love to bake from home, but it is illegal and I don't.....I did (yeah for me) recently get a job as a cake decorator in a grocery store, ....knowing the prices, I wouldn't bother making cakes and selling them at those grocery store prices. Would not be worth my time...Would you really want to spend your time making a wedding cake for 85.00?
Carmelo Ricarde said:Jennifer,
In Arizona, one must have a separate or commercial kitchen that is inspected by the department of health. If I did free cake, i'd probably keep them simple as in a 2 x 9inch round and would keep the price somewhere close to a grocery store cake as the delivery fee (depending on their location).
I think you are right though about free cake being made in a non-commercial kitchen. So regardless, I'm going to have to rent or just settle with friends and family. mostly family.
Thanks for your feedback!
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Permalink Reply by Lynne Salmon on
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Your idea has been tried many times and many other variations.
Just be aware that in most areas the HD is WAY too busy to seek out a person selling cxakes from home UNLESS there is some report - from a jealous other decorator or report that your place is dirty/someone got sick from eating what you made.
On another cake discussion board someone who has a legal bakery told about an inspector coming to her place (very recently), finding her oven off by a couple degrees & what this cost her in $s to repair. Somehow a conversation ensued about illegal decorators working from home and the inspector told her (basically) that HD was looking the other way because "in this ecomoney people were just trying to keep their families afloat".
Yrs ago I lived in a rather remote town like 50 miles from the HD; I advertised in a local 'PennySaver" throwaway paper. One morning I got a phone call from a guy who identified himself as the HD; jist of converstion - we won't bother you - do all you want by word of mouth - but do NOT advertise. And I did for about 5 yrs before moving :)
Only you can decide if you will 'skirt the law' and do similar or obey the law of the land.
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Permalink Reply by Pam Carlisle on
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OK, Big Time rant here! My buttons been pushed. I am so tired of hearing 'If it feels good - do it!' this generation seems to be having when it comes to obeying our laws. I want it and I want it now! I'm special so I don't have to wait, save up my money and do whats right when it's not convienent for ME. It's all about ME, what I need, what I need to pay off, what I want...MY passion. I hear every excuse in the book why the rules shoudn't apply to ME for whatever reason. What are we teaching our children by this example. If you don't like the law then work to change it. If half as much energy and passion was spent to make the laws better represent the people who they are supposed to protect then how to circumvent the laws, how much better of a country we would live in. If this type of attitude continues what kind of morals will our children and grandchildren have.
There are plenty of hobbies out there to make side money that dosen't require a large investment or specialized requirements. You want to make cake for friends and family - I have no problem. But when you set yourself up as a business and 'fly under the radar' you make the rest of us who comply and have heavily invested and put all at risk to be legal really downright mad. We have bills too to pay, families to feed and who do you think sponsors your childs baseball or football team and pays the taxes so your community can have all those services you can't live without. So the inspectors don't actively search you out...where are your morals....?
This is a great website and I like coming here so lets keep our disscussions a learning and productive experience. Pam
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Permalink Reply by Eileen S on
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Pam - I understand what you are saying. I really do. And I would LOVE to be able to open my own shop and do what I love to do as a business owner in my community. FInancially I am unable to do that at this time, but love the artistry involved in cake-making. Right now I make cakes for friends and family and charge very nominally to cover my expenses. I do not advertise and never did, but get orders by word of mouth. I live in a very small town. Someone heard I make cakes and called the health department. The volume of cakes I do is very small. I am not a threat to the livelihood of those running the larger bakery in town (yes, bakery, singular, the only one in town besides grocery stores). So I don't know why someone felt "threatened" enough to do that to me.
You have a legitimate complaint that people who want the laws changed should work to do that. And I am woking on rough drafts of a cottage law write-up for Wisconsin, but it's really discouraging when you see how long it takes to get laws even looked at - much less passed.
I like this website as well. It's a learning experience each and every time I visit.
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Permalink Reply by Carmelo Ricarde on
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Laws have to change to adapt to the times. if not, blacks should still sit in the back of the bus and women shouldn't vote.
Did Rosa Parks try to change the law or did she just refuse to go sit in the back of the bus? You are in complete agreement with every stinkin' law there is in the United States or actively pursuing to change them right now?
I understand your point, but don't become so opinionated while riding your high horse. I asked a relatively simple question. I got great answers.
My button has been pushed about how self righteous individuals like yourself rant about what we are teaching our children and grandchildren. About where our morals are at. You must be perfect! Not one violation ever in your whole life. It must piss you off that you are perfect in an imperfect world.
Pam Carlisle said:OK, Big Time rant here! My buttons been pushed. I am so tired of hearing 'If it feels good - do it!' this generation seems to be having when it comes to obeying our laws. I want it and I want it now! I'm special so I don't have to wait, save up my money and do whats right when it's not convienent for ME. It's all about ME, what I need, what I need to pay off, what I want...MY passion. I hear every excuse in the book why the rules shoudn't apply to ME for whatever reason. What are we teaching our children by this example. If you don't like the law then work to change it. If half as much energy and passion was spent to make the laws better represent the people who they are supposed to protect then how to circumvent the laws, how much better of a country we would live in. If this type of attitude continues what kind of morals will our children and grandchildren have.
There are plenty of hobbies out there to make side money that dosen't require a large investment or specialized requirements. You want to make cake for friends and family - I have no problem. But when you set yourself up as a business and 'fly under the radar' you make the rest of us who comply and have heavily invested and put all at risk to be legal really downright mad. We have bills too to pay, families to feed and who do you think sponsors your childs baseball or football team and pays the taxes so your community can have all those services you can't live without. So the inspectors don't actively search you out...where are your morals....?
This is a great website and I like coming here so lets keep our disscussions a learning and productive experience. Pam
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Permalink Reply by Theresa Happe on
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Ok, time for everyone to calm down. This topic is not a new discussion. It's been brought up over and over and over again and we don't need everyone flipping out every time it comes up. Can we please keep this civil? Thank you.
Carmelo Ricarde said:Laws have to change to adapt to the times. if not, blacks should still sit in the back of the bus and women shouldn't vote.
Did Rosa Parks try to change the law or did she just refuse to go sit in the back of the bus? You are in complete agreement with every stinkin' law there is in the United States or actively pursuing to change them right now?
I understand your point, but don't become so opinionated while riding your high horse. I asked a relatively simple question. I got great answers.
My button has been pushed about how self righteous individuals like yourself rant about what we are teaching our children and grandchildren. About where our morals are at. You must be perfect! Not one violation ever in your whole life. It must piss you off that you are perfect in an imperfect world.
Pam Carlisle said:OK, Big Time rant here! My buttons been pushed. I am so tired of hearing 'If it feels good - do it!' this generation seems to be having when it comes to obeying our laws. I want it and I want it now! I'm special so I don't have to wait, save up my money and do whats right when it's not convienent for ME. It's all about ME, what I need, what I need to pay off, what I want...MY passion. I hear every excuse in the book why the rules shoudn't apply to ME for whatever reason. What are we teaching our children by this example. If you don't like the law then work to change it. If half as much energy and passion was spent to make the laws better represent the people who they are supposed to protect then how to circumvent the laws, how much better of a country we would live in. If this type of attitude continues what kind of morals will our children and grandchildren have.
There are plenty of hobbies out there to make side money that dosen't require a large investment or specialized requirements. You want to make cake for friends and family - I have no problem. But when you set yourself up as a business and 'fly under the radar' you make the rest of us who comply and have heavily invested and put all at risk to be legal really downright mad. We have bills too to pay, families to feed and who do you think sponsors your childs baseball or football team and pays the taxes so your community can have all those services you can't live without. So the inspectors don't actively search you out...where are your morals....?
This is a great website and I like coming here so lets keep our disscussions a learning and productive experience. Pam
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Permalink Reply by Mirelys Calise on
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Karen how can I be part of that group? I have been renting kitchens and most of the time i spent more time cleaning them to my satisfaction before I start baking than the time it takes me to bake and finish the product. I have been looking for on how we could change this law that will permit us to not only to manage but to bake from home.
Karen Marie said:Carmelo being ifn the food service business for many years you would NOT get over on the health inspectors so dont even try. If you start marketing your product publicly be prepared for someone to check you out to see if you are legal. I live in FL and we have to same dilemma and there is a group trying to chnge the laws but for now you need a commercial kitchen. There are some options....save your money and buy some used equipment and rent a small warehouse to set up a kitchen. (look into the laws in your state for minimum square feet....probably 500 sq ft or so) Or get a job working as a cake decorator. If it is your passion you wont feel like it is work....I never do....you will laugh and tell yourself, :"They pay me to play? How cool is that?"
Carmelo Ricarde said:Don't judge me! i have student loans!!!!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by L Welch on
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Have you considered making dummy cakes to be rented for centerpieces? That way it doesn't matter about a commercial kitchen because they are not meant to be eaten. You can then sell gumpaste decorations crafted on picks to be placed on real cakes that the client either buys from a bakery or makes themselves to coordinate with the design theme. As long as what you are selling is not meant to be eaten, you are good. I've actually had this discussion with the health inspector. However, I would definately have disclaimer label on the packaging that states this is for decoration only and not meant for human consumption. It also gets you out of the last minute time crunch of trying to decorate a cake right before delivery because it needs to be fresh. Just a thought for a budding decorator who needs to keep it legal.
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Linda!!!! That is a great idea!!!!!!!!!
Linda Welch said:Have you considered making dummy cakes to be rented for centerpieces? That way it doesn't matter about a commercial kitchen because they are not meant to be eaten. You can then sell gumpaste decorations crafted on picks to be placed on real cakes that the client either buys from a bakery or makes themselves to coordinate with the design theme. As long as what you are selling is not meant to be eaten, you are good. I've actually had this discussion with the health inspector. However, I would definately have disclaimer label on the packaging that states this is for decoration only and not meant for human consumption. It also gets you out of the last minute time crunch of trying to decorate a cake right before delivery because it needs to be fresh. Just a thought for a budding decorator who needs to keep it legal.
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Permalink Reply by shirley villafranca on
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I love this idea, i live in New York in fact i already bought a 20 quart commercial mixer anticipating that i can operate at home but was told it was not legal. I am seriously considering perfecting those sugar flowers, and making a business out of it. Carmelo, i totally understand your situation, maybe someday the whole United States will be allowed to operate a home business. I am a permanent resident or green card holder, i have a small bakery in my native country and i am now at the stage where i might just leave the US, go back to my country and give up my green card for good so i can go do what i love most, selling my creations. There is something magical when you made something out of your own hands and others get to appreciate it. Good luck to you Carmelo.
Carmelo Ricarde said:Linda!!!! That is a great idea!!!!!!!!!
Linda Welch said:Have you considered making dummy cakes to be rented for centerpieces? That way it doesn't matter about a commercial kitchen because they are not meant to be eaten. You can then sell gumpaste decorations crafted on picks to be placed on real cakes that the client either buys from a bakery or makes themselves to coordinate with the design theme. As long as what you are selling is not meant to be eaten, you are good. I've actually had this discussion with the health inspector. However, I would definately have disclaimer label on the packaging that states this is for decoration only and not meant for human consumption. It also gets you out of the last minute time crunch of trying to decorate a cake right before delivery because it needs to be fresh. Just a thought for a budding decorator who needs to keep it legal.
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Shirley - I was watching Fabulous Cakes one night and there was a woman who lived in New York City that was selling cakes out of her apartment where she lives with her son and husband. Is it a county thing? Or a city thing? I just found it interesting that she could do it but you couldn't.
shirley villafranca said:I love this idea, i live in New York in fact i already bought a 20 quart commercial mixer anticipating that i can operate at home but was told it was not legal. I am seriously considering perfecting those sugar flowers, and making a business out of it. Carmelo, i totally understand your situation, maybe someday the whole United States will be allowed to operate a home business. I am a permanent resident or green card holder, i have a small bakery in my native country and i am now at the stage where i might just leave the US, go back to my country and give up my green card for good so i can go do what i love most, selling my creations. There is something magical when you made something out of your own hands and others get to appreciate it. Good luck to you Carmelo.
Carmelo Ricarde said:Linda!!!! That is a great idea!!!!!!!!!
Linda Welch said:Have you considered making dummy cakes to be rented for centerpieces? That way it doesn't matter about a commercial kitchen because they are not meant to be eaten. You can then sell gumpaste decorations crafted on picks to be placed on real cakes that the client either buys from a bakery or makes themselves to coordinate with the design theme. As long as what you are selling is not meant to be eaten, you are good. I've actually had this discussion with the health inspector. However, I would definately have disclaimer label on the packaging that states this is for decoration only and not meant for human consumption. It also gets you out of the last minute time crunch of trying to decorate a cake right before delivery because it needs to be fresh. Just a thought for a budding decorator who needs to keep it legal.
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In NY, it varies by county. If you can't run out of your home, you still can get licensed as a manufacturing facility if your kitchen is separate from your living space. This could work for people with separate kitchens in their homes.
Eileen S said:Shirley - I was watching Fabulous Cakes one night and there was a woman who lived in New York City that was selling cakes out of her apartment where she lives with her son and husband. Is it a county thing? Or a city thing? I just found it interesting that she could do it but you couldn't.
shirley villafranca said:I love this idea, i live in New York in fact i already bought a 20 quart commercial mixer anticipating that i can operate at home but was told it was not legal. I am seriously considering perfecting those sugar flowers, and making a business out of it. Carmelo, i totally understand your situation, maybe someday the whole United States will be allowed to operate a home business. I am a permanent resident or green card holder, i have a small bakery in my native country and i am now at the stage where i might just leave the US, go back to my country and give up my green card for good so i can go do what i love most, selling my creations. There is something magical when you made something out of your own hands and others get to appreciate it. Good luck to you Carmelo.
Carmelo Ricarde said:Linda!!!! That is a great idea!!!!!!!!!
Linda Welch said:Have you considered making dummy cakes to be rented for centerpieces? That way it doesn't matter about a commercial kitchen because they are not meant to be eaten. You can then sell gumpaste decorations crafted on picks to be placed on real cakes that the client either buys from a bakery or makes themselves to coordinate with the design theme. As long as what you are selling is not meant to be eaten, you are good. I've actually had this discussion with the health inspector. However, I would definately have disclaimer label on the packaging that states this is for decoration only and not meant for human consumption. It also gets you out of the last minute time crunch of trying to decorate a cake right before delivery because it needs to be fresh. Just a thought for a budding decorator who needs to keep it legal.
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